I Live on a Dual Carriageway

What is a dual carriageway I hear you ask… it really doesn’t matter but if you must know its “a road divided by a central strip of land etc. with each side used by traffic moving in one direction”.

Anyway its the weekend again and I’m going out soon to meet, yes, another dual aka. “potential soul mate #21” 😉

Back to my previous post I thought it was wise to realise that as a “nice guy” i.e on the objectivity end of the scale it is about time I emulated some “jerk-iness” so to speak and be a bit more assertive with my attitudes towards dating.

Of course however much I emulate we can’t deny my true “nice guy” nature unless that part of my psyche dies altogether, d’oh!

By next week I will add some thoughts and iconic summaries of Gulenko’s Erotic attitudes which I find quite interesting especially the “aggressor-victim” scenario with a couple I know 🙂

That’s me signing off for the weekend.

PS. On second thought she’s probably an ENFp instead. I didn’t feel any dual understanding, attraction or talk-for-ages-about-everything vibes.

PPS. In fact I can say for sure now that this particular girl was indeed an ENFp producing an asymmetrical relation of supervision which after much thought and reflection seems correct with the way I basically “supervised” from the start.

PPPS. I could later tell from a glance that this relationship is not going to get very “close” due to a distant psychological distance and just like my own “supervisor” friend we’ll probably hookup once in a blue moon if we wished.

Postscript (#4). In accordance with Gulenko’s Erotic Attitudes we were both “infantile” which equates to a degree of selfishness in regards to wanting the other to be a ‘guardian angel’. It worked to some degree but eventually I noticed a child-like quality between us regardless of actual ages.

PPPPPS. This experience proves how all types of relations are important to understand because then you can honestly decide what you want from it. In this case, a casual relationship would be appropriate for me considering we don’t get too attached.

Final Postscript & Conclusion. When you read a pseudo-scientific article giving a how-to on converting a casual relationship to a serious one that would seem silly to me. It completely disregards what Socionics teaches, that essentially types exist and differences in lifestyle will always be apparent regardless of trying to compromise in this way.

From a purely impersonal and cold-logic point of view you would identify relationships and honestly make the best use of them, there is no compromise, there is only guidance, improvement or avoidance with knowledge of objective reality i.e. having a fair idea of what’s actually going on rather than a ‘good enough’ subjective account.

Courtship Is A Special Problem For Thinkers

It is true to say that finding your perfect life-long partner can and might be a special problem for any one of the social types although I’m biasing this towards thinkers and day-dreamers.

The Reinin dichotomy that identifies the division between subjectivists and objectivists would highlight a key difference in how people go about ‘the dating game’.

It would simply be the difference between those who base all their knowledge of people on personal experiences vs. impartiality towards every situation.

Since it is generally ‘easier’ to be subjective, most people are. It is generally ‘harder’ to be objective because that would involve the desire and ability to know reality (“truth”) through external observations rather than pure personal experience.

It may also be comically known as The Jerk (subjectivist) vs. Nice Guy (objectivist) battle. The following diagram I’ve put together is a nice way of showing how this battle reaches a conclusion:

The triangle represents that however you deal with the world in respect of the opposite sex it will eventually lead to “settling down” and if it doesn’t then you haven’t learnt to appreciate the other end of the spectrum with regards to where you predominantly rest in this dichotomy.

I don’t mean to suggest that everyone should be looking for their dual although I do have a general comment about the odd female ESE “enthusiast” that I’ve known. As heavily subjective they might treat every potential partner as “the one” which is almost the complete opposite of myself.

As I swing the other way I usually treat everyone I meet obviously more impartially thus specifically believing that I have to figure out their potential worth to me. There is no “the one” until I decide after years and years of philosophising who I simply want to make a commitment with.

I believe this answers that age-old question of “why do nice guys always finish last?”.

Further reading: Nice Guys Finish Last

Clubs, Religion and Politics (part two)

In part one I discussed how the researcher (NT) and humanitarian (NF) clubs were virtually identical to what David Keirsey called Rationals and Idealists respectively.

Now we come to the second part where I shall now resolve the slight mess with matching the remaining clubs to the rest of Keirsey’s temperaments.

With (quadras) in round brackets, {clubs} in curly brackets and Socionic [temperaments] in square brackets we get the following…

Keirsey’s Guardians:

• ESFj (α) {socialite} [rational-extrovert]
• ISTj (β) {pragmatist} [rational-introvert]
• ISFj (γ) {socialite} [rational-introvert]
• ESTj (δ) {pragmatist} [rational-extrovert]

Keirsey’s Artisans:

• ISFp (α) {socialite} [irrational-introvert]
• ESTp (β) {pragmatist} [irrational-extrovert]
• ESFp (γ) {socialite} [irrational-extrovert]
• ISTp (δ) {pragmatist} [irrational-introvert]

Let’s begin…

The Rational Socialite & Pragmatist Clubs [Sj]

This set of types now matches perfectly to what Keirsey (1998) called Guardians. They are usually responsible for getting things moving in society with a knack for logistics.

Alpha and Gamma Sj’s {socialites} have a knack for making social contributions to a community. Beta and Delta Sj’s {pragmatists} have a knack for creating and managing action plans.

Therefore we can generally say that Guardians within each of the four quadras are the people who essentially make society ‘go’ whether through managing companies or community organisations etc.

This would make them advocates of Communism (as a social rather than political movement).

Members of these clubs tend to be culturally traditional rather than religious per se. Attending religious education centres would be more in the interests of the community rather than the Almighty I would suspect.

The picture on the right represents cycling for beginners with its training wheels attached. Guardians usually expect to specialise in something. They can also act like stabilisers who follow tried-and-tested models that keep society running in an organised and efficient fashion.

You may find that many service jobs are taken up by people of these clubs. Examples include general practitioners, nurses, managers, customer advisers etc.

In the film Antitrust (2001) we get to see a kind of classic divide between so-called revolutionists who wish to change the world with open-source software and the traditionalists who’ve yet to understand the importance of it until the switch is flipped so to speak.

These clubs would likely be advocates of Conservatism, “political philosophies that favour traditional values, where “tradition” refers to religious, cultural, or nationally defined beliefs and customs.” – from wikipedia.

According to Dreikur (1912), members of these clubs can and may develop a mistaken goal for serving others in regards to collectivism, the opposite of individualism (capitalism).

The Irrational Socialite & Pragmatist Clubs [Sp]

This set of types now matches perfectly to what Keirsey (1998) called Artisans. They are usually responsible for making an impact in society with a knack for tactics.

Alpha and Gamma Sp’s {socialites} have a knack for social harmony through diplomatic relations. Beta and Delta Sp’s {pragmatists} have a knack for promotion and operations.

Therefore we can generally say that Artisans within each of the four quadras are the people who are essentially society’s builders, ‘movers & shakers’ of social harmony and business.

This would make them advocates of Socialism (the imperfect stage between communism and capitalism).

Members of these clubs tend to be very liberal in regards to cultural/religious customs and teachings. They will likely adopt what they like or simply show their respect purely as means of maintaining social harmony with irritation by traditional rules and regulations.

The picture on the right represents freedom of expression in the form of learning how to play bass guitar. Artisans usually follow a slightly more liberal approach to getting things done in society. They can thus act like improvisers who can impulsively change their tactics in dealing with people, ventures or other projects.

Typical Artisan careers include roles as actors, sports players, singers, crafts people, trades people, builders, repair workers and sales people etc. In fact any job that ultimately provides more freedom, hence the rise and dominance of the open-plan office and open-source movements.

These clubs would likely be advocates of Liberalism, which “emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity” and things like “freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a mixed economy and transparent system of government.” – from wikipedia.

According to Dreikur (1912), members of these clubs can and may develop a mistaken goal for retaliation in regards to existing social-political movements.

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Relevant quotations:

George H.W. Bush (1924-), a famous member of the {Guardian temperament} and 41st President of the United States made the following statement about religion:

“No, I don’t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God.”

And here’s a statement advocating Communism:

“I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully.”

Bruce Lee (1940-1973), a famous member of the {Artisan temperament} and American actor made the following statement on self-enlightenment :

“To know oneself is to study oneself in action with another person.“

And here’s a statement relating to Liberalism:

“Man, the living creature, the creating individual, is always more important than any established style or system.“

Intermission: Parody of The Secret

As I break for the weekend I thought I would leave you with a short trailer to a longer 10 minute film parody of The Secret.

For the full length video visit http://guruyou-u.com/ 😉

Here’s a run-down of the types I think that have been ridiculed in this video including my own parodied titles of how they came across to me:

• “Earnest Hunt” as The Baffled Analyst (INTj)
• “Ike Abraham Michaels” as The Infantile Analyst (INTj)
• “Joseph Witherspoon” as The Wise Critic (INTp)
• “Tabitha Luckett” as The Aggressive Pragmatist (ISTj)
• “Ray Marshall” as The Sincere Humanist (INFj)
• “Athena Lisette” as The Infantile Psychologist (ENFp)
• “Genie” as The Firm Pioneer (ENTj)

It seems to me like a parody of the researcher and humanitarian clubs who tend to know stuff (using intuition with logic/ethics) that want to share their powerful insights with society. And of course there’s a pragmatist thrown in to actually manage the whole thing.

The mass-marketing of The Secret otherwise known as The Law of Attraction is an example of such knowledge that non-philosophers could make use of, if only they understood it on some level or another.

However, as Friedrich Nietzsche (German classical Scholar, Philosopher and Critic of culture, 1844–1900) once implied:

“There are no facts, only interpretations.”

So when it comes to mass-marketing a collection of interpretations you obviously have to choose your words carefully if you wish to promote them as facts that ‘regular’ people want to hear and make use of.

As discussed in a previous post to do with the bicameral model of the mind, preaching is one form of consciousness that plays on the deep-rooted tendency of ‘lazy minds’ who indulge in what others have to say.

This is okay if the preacher has ethical intentions where they are trying to promote you to an ideal state of consciousness having complete control of your ability to reason independently and thus control your destiny.

Few people swing from this traditional form of psychology to a more efficient quantum psychology so to speak that is predominantly concerned with getting results immediately benefiting self and society.

Network marketing is one such business vehicle for this because it turns an inherently aggressive ‘dog eat dog’ society into essentially a more territorial ‘cat help cat’ society (and yes, you get nine lives to play and learn from).

That’s why this form of working capitalism usually gets praised as ‘the perfect business’ or ‘the most ethical way’ although is heavily opposed by many anti-capitalists who essentially don’t see the bigger picture.

Anyway since society is poorly structured this way where the traditional norm is to compete rather than create most people don’t learn to appreciate the true benefits of rational capitalism where essentially ‘success breeds success’.

In essence, compete means comparing salaries for specialist jobs whilst create means pursuing your creative dreams building unique values for society that get richly rewarded in the long-term.

As Jim Rohn (American Speaker and Author) has said time and time again:

“Work harder on yourself than you do on your job.”

To round up this post I would comically say that I’m yet to find a job that will tolerate my immense logical-intuitive ego as normal e.g. as an author I don’t seem to get much respect from employers who expect specialist skills for their company’s benefit.

Just for fun I would like to see your comments about the parody video above regarding what social types you think were ridiculed: –

Correspondence of Personality Disorders with Social Type

One of the most exciting things I like to research at the moment involves the relating of Psychiatric personality disorders with Psychological social types.

For example, we’ve already had a post about a sociopathic ISTj I had a short history with and as an INTj I can admit to having schizoid-like qualities specifically my tendency towards emotional coldness and indifference to the social world as an individualist.

Of course in my case these qualities may be things that I simply grow the other way from with age thus no real cause for concern apart from having an awareness of them.

At the end of the day it may be a case of saying, “choose your disorder because no-one’s perfect…” and then do something consciously about it.

For example, to bring some emotional warmth by perhaps smiling more and organising social events myself rather than waiting around for others to get the ball rolling so to speak.

Thanks to the wonders of Facebook I can act like an “extrovert” arranging events first! 😉

However when it comes to ‘personal development’ by doing what you don’t feel inclined to do you’ll most likely revert back to your comfort zone at some time or another. Hence why external motivation doesn’t usually last.

In some cases disorders can really be unhealthy from the point-of-view of others although from the self it would usually seem quite normal. Some disorders therefore may be classed as worse than others in regards to the potential affects on society.

From extroverted disorders that may involve masochism to introverted disorders that may involve schizoidism. Disorders in general are usually in response to some kind of anxiety with society and become a personal way of dealing with it until properly resolved.

I will begin these comparisons of disorder and type soon…

Socionics vs. Myers-Briggs Temperament Instrument (round one)

They both had common roots…

It all began with Carl Jung’s groundbreaking work Psychological Types from the 1920’s. He is most famous for proposing his classic ‘two types of person’ in society, the idea of introverts and extraverts (originally spelt by Jung with an ‘a’).

As already presented on the Social Attitudes page Jung defined many rational and irrational social functions or cognitive processes which would later form the building-blocks of the sixteen psychological types.

In the mean time…

Great philosophies and social-trends’ theorists throughout the centuries had already noticed ‘four types of person’ or temperament, each with specific attitudes towards their role in society.

The goals of the MBTI….

• Firstly it would seem to me that the goal of the Myers-Briggs Temperament Instrument was to make Jung’s types more accessible to the masses which involved devising and revising old and new terms to fit a modern society. For example, irrational replaced with perceptual, rational replaced with judgement etc.
• Secondly I would say that they tried to create a  ‘perfect system’ of absolutes where every individual can be tagged and catalogued into one of sixteen types with no overlap.
• Thirdly, since the creator of the instrument was of the idealist temperament or humanitarian club in Socionics it would seem to me that its main goal was to awaken and enlighten individual potential by shining a light on your supposed strengths and weaknesses.

However, as this article discusses, the MBTI is a bloody mess! It is also riddled with The Forer Effect which is great for lovers of Astrology, Numerology, Tarot etc. but absolutely useless and possibly damaging to an individual from a purely scientific point-of-view.

The ‘cure’ so to speak for The Forer Effect is an appreciation in the use of thinking, writing and speaking in a language called E-Prime or English Prime which also forms a component of NLP.

You may also think of it as a concept in psychotherapy known as ‘reframing’, to essentially re-think about your thoughts (thus your life) in more openly useful and creative ways rather than with standard language that closes down your thoughts (and the possibilities in your life obviously leading to depression and what-not).

The goals of Socionics…

• First and foremost it is a re-interpretation of Jung’s work with the inclusion of other works notably from Freud and Kepinski which all combine to form a theorem that can accurately predict the outcome of relationships.
• Secondly you won’t find “perfect descriptions” of each of the individual sixteen types because there is little attempt to humanise them. It would then seem that everyone involved with Socionics who use a more scientific point-of-view can acknowledge that individual types are irrelevant referring to point one above where the focus is more on interactions per se.
• Thirdly, the only “perfection” in Socionics would equate to the classification of the sixteen inter-type relations themselves which by their nature exist outside of an individual. In other words, an observable relationship between two people only exists when they are interacting, it is only absolute for the sake of argument.

Describing interactions or relationships primarily as opposed to sixteen absolute types is how Socionics differs. Since most people don’t think on a conceptual level and expect something concrete, personality and relationship descriptions will inevitably get written to satisfy this majority of people.

The problem with doing this is analogous to someone who scans a dictionary but never reads the definitions. They gain surface understanding or just enough knowledge to do something with what they know.

Common problems…

The transformation of low-level concepts into high-level human readable language inevitably results in a low appreciation for how things actually work.

For example, how many fanatics of the Myers-Briggs Instrument actually care or understand about how types were formed in the first place. The same applies to Socionic relations where people remain indifferent to a full functional analysis to understand what’s going on.

This can make the reading of who you ‘are’ a pleasing, indulging and comforting experience which doesn’t ultimately change anything unless a ‘real’ expert on the subject can facilitate you.

Next time…

In round two I will present how Socionics represents a more advanced interpretation of psychological type and relationships.

Every relationship appears different to the untrained eye

From the Socionic perspective every relationship you observe can be examined closely and matched with principles that have been previously identified.

For example, last night at my ‘business meeting’ I noticed two guys who blatantly shared a ‘relation of benefit’ where ‘the (ISTj) beneficiary’ was always offering advice to the weak unconscious area of ‘the (ISFp) benefactor’ who always appeared to have more social respect.

This is of course unique from my point-of-view because my ‘benefactor’ is the INFp. Nonetheless I come to expect specific similarities such as the attraction of the relationship from an information metabolism perspective and the asymmetrical off-balance providing some social hierarchy of respect.

Every relationship or interaction I witness between two individuals will soon enough fit into some kind of Socionic relation criteria due to the way that my Introverted Logic (Ti) function demands that it makes sense (even if that sense is non-sense to others and sometimes to myself!).

As Agent Smith from The Matrix^® would say about seeing patterns and trends with individuals and relationships…

“Do you hear that, Mister Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability.”

“To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant.”

I’m having a late night reflection session as I sit up in bed with my laptop. A different style of post therefore. I was just thinking about the danger of society not being aware of Socionics.

I regularly observe and notice social types, relations and groups all around me.

For example, having gone to a business style meeting tonight I could quickly establish the likely types of those involved through some handy tools.

Observing individuals as simply representatives of a type and also watching how a particular individual interacts with other individuals as representatives of another type. I could verify their likely social type from observing the relationship dynamics present.

It can also be quite freakish when somebody acts very similar to a way that I’ve seen before from the perspective of an identical type I’ve previously had dealings with.

As a schizoid-like INTj I’ve come to the miraculous realisation of how I can get more involved in the social world. I’ve decided to start going out more to socio-educational events similar to before except this time I go with my book in hand and let my ‘tool’ do the talking for me. Something I learnt from Network Marketing.

In fact it was probably an INTj who invented MLM for it involves the personal recommendation of products you actually use rather than hard-selling of those you don’t and worse still haven’t really got your heart set on in regards to promoting it.

Having a physical book to show off rather than just feebly talking about it in discussion is very effective at arousing interest. I absolutely love one of the typical responses from people on the lines that you’ve written at book at the mere age of just 25. Even I forget how young I am in that respect.

I still need to write another book on Socionics, something much more suited to the average Joe. Some of the posts and articles I’ve written on this website will serve as a basis for a future “Relationship’s Handbook” project I will work on. I especially like my current efforts with regard to the icons that represents the various concepts i.e. social attitudes and groups etc.

And finally for now I will conclude by going back round to the quote given in the title. To remain unaware of your unawareness of a subject that affects us all to some degree is similar to an illness that will eventually engulf you.

Clubs, Religion and Politics (part one)

Socionic clubs are very similar to the four temperaments that have been revised over the centuries. In this study I wish to relate two out of four clubs incorporating my views on social-political systems and religion.

The other two clubs don’t correspond with the four temperaments unless we subdivide them to match up thus I will return with that conundrum in part two.

On a basic level we could generalise that sensory clubs tend to do-more-think-less whilst intuitive clubs tend to think-more-do-less which can obviously change over time with motivation.

Let’s begin…

The Researchers Club [NT] {intuition & logic}

This set of types matches perfectly to what David Keirsey (1998) called Rationals. They are usually responsible for intellectual thinking with an eye for understanding business.

Alpha NT’s have a knack for exposing or creating new models of business. Gamma NT’s have a knack for blueprinting how these new models can be used for mass-market profits.

We might also say that Alpha and Gamma NT’s are the masterminds and initiators of the business world. This would make them advocates of laissez-faire capitalism.

Members of the researcher club can come in all shapes and sizes regarding religious beliefs although they are all likely to have something in common, that is, the way they think about the Almighty or not.

The picture on the right represents ‘critical thinking’ which is likely how this club would treat the subject of religion. They would unlikely act like blind devout followers of a doctrine since they are essentially theorists with a constant degree of scepticism until their ‘retire’ to one way of thinking.

If you’ve seen the film The Secret then you would likely have come across the term Law of Attraction which is one of various laws probably invented by the researcher club to explain how your thoughts create your reality where the Almighty remains in the background whilst you exercise your free-will.

This club would also likely be advocates of Libertarianism, “a political philosophy maintaining that all persons are the absolute owners of their own lives, and should be free to do whatever they wish with their persons or property, provided they allow others the same liberty.” –from wikipedia.

According to Dreikur (1912), members of this club can and may develop a mistaken goal of power in regards to individualism.

The Humanist Club [NF] {intuition & ethics}

This set of types matches perfectly to what David Keirsey (1998) called Idealists. They are usually responsible for emotional intelligence with an eye for personal welfare & development.

Beta NF’s have a knack for creating deep meaningful relationships with others. Delta NF’s have a knack for uncovering the potentials in others and society.

Therefore we can say that Beta and Delta NF’s are the soul-searchers and soul-enlighteners of the spiritual world. This would make them advocates of idealism.

Members of the humanist club in my experience tend to either be full on religious with a pseudological argument for the existence of an infinite being or relatively agnostic/atheist with a belief in the spiritual realm.

The picture on the right represents spiritual enlightenment or healing. They usually promote religious teachings or mystical beliefs involving morals and ethics. They can also act like catalysts who reassure and inspire people who have found themselves leading ’empty’ or distraught lives.

You might find that many life-coaches tend to be from the humanist club. In fact any profession that involves helping others such as social worker, nutritionist, EFT practitioner or counsellor etc.

The club would likely be advocates of Humanism, “a broad category of ethical philosophies that affirm the dignity and worth of all people, based on the ability to determine right and wrong by appeal to universal human qualities — particularly rationality.”
— from wikipedia.

According to Dreikur (1912), members of this club can and may develop a mistaken goal for recognition in regards to altruism.

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Relevant quotations:Ayn Rand (1905-1982), a famous member of the researcher club and one of the most important philosophers of the 20th century (and beyond) made the following statement about religion:

“Religion is a primitive form of philosophy, [the] attempt to offer a comprehensive view of reality.”

And here’s a statement from Rand advocating capitalism:

“Capitalism demands the best of every man – his rationality – and rewards him accordingly. It leaves every man free to choose the work he likes, to specialize in it, to trade his product for the products of others, and to go as far on the road of achievement as his ability and ambition will carry him.”

Mahatma Gandhi (1869-1948), a famous member of the humanist club and previously a major political and spiritual leader of India made the following statement about religion:

“A religion that takes no account of practical affairs and does not help to solve them is no religion.”

And here’s a great Ghandi quote describing the adoptions of new idealisms in society (e.g. how Socionics will slowly but surely penetrate the Western world):

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”

The Quadra-Club Correlation

The Alpha and Gamma quadras are a mix of Researcher (NT) and Socialite (SF) clubs.

–> <–

The Beta and Delta quadras are a mix of Humanitarian (NF) and Pragmatist (ST) clubs.

–> <–

This raises four questions as follows:

1. What is the difference between Alpha Researchers (NT’s) and Gamma Researchers (NT’s)?

From a functional analysis point of view Alpha NT’s are more concerned with Introverted Logic (Ti) and Gamma NT’s are more concerned with Extroverted Logic (Te) — egotistically speaking.

In a real world example this may translate to Alpha NT’s who investigate and devise new systems for society to use whilst Gamma NT’s investigate how to realise business potential from concepts through to their practical application(s).

2. What is the difference between Alpha Socialites (SF’s) and Gamma Socialites (SF’s)?

From a functional analysis point of view Alpha SF’s are more concerned with Extroverted Ethics (Fe) and Gamma SF’s are more concerned with Introverted Ethics (Fi) — egotistically speaking.

In a real world example this may translate to Alpha SF’s who outwardly seek out opportunities for social networking whilst Gamma SF’s modestly keep an eye on maintaining social harmony and order.

3. What is the difference between Beta Humanitarians (NF’s) and Delta Humanitarians (NF’s)?

From a functional analysis point of view Beta NF’s are more concerned with Introverted Intuition (Ni) and Delta NF’s are more concerned with Extroverted Intuition (Ne) — egotistically speaking.

In a real world example this may translate to Beta NF’s who appreciate the ‘inner-soul’ of people seeing through superficiality whilst Delta NF’s appreciate the potential of an individual.

4. What is the difference between Beta Pragmatists (ST’s) and Delta Pragmatists (ST’s)?

From a functional analysis point of view Beta ST’s are more concerned with Extroverted Sensing (Se) and Delta ST’s are more concerned with Introverted Sensing (Si) — egotistically speaking.

In a real world example this may translate to Beta ST’s who expect a non-nonsense approach to getting things done whilst Delta ST’s appreciate that practical results come with tried-and-tested methods.

To round this up we find that all club members in Alpha-Gamma and Beta-Delta quadras respectively have relations of ‘extinguishment’ and ‘quasi-identity’ between them.

The resulting two relation types of clubs between quadras are attractive albeit prone to suspicion and misunderstanding.